Possible Changes in North America at the Time of the Lord's Death
(continued from Was the Nephite Civilization in North America?)
Now, let's go into a bit of "what ifs."
We assume that what we've been taught by various sciences is correct. In particular, we assume it takes hundreds of thousands of years (or millions of years) for geographic changes to occur.
But we also know how devastating a large hurricane can be.
Or the destruction that can occur with a big flood.
Or the changes that can occur with a volcanic eruption.
Or the damage earthquakes can cause.
Any one of those events can change the landscape of the area, and they don't take millennia, years, or even months to cause the change. .
Now go and read 3 Nephi chapter 8, and remember the Nephites had been in the land for over 600 years. Here's some bits from that chapter.
There was "a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land" (verse 5).
Remember, this is storm that nobody had experienced in the 600+ years the Nephites had been in the land.
"And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder" (verse 6).
I've experienced thunder that shakes the house, and maybe even that cause a rumble in the ground. But this thunder was so intense the ground was shaking like it was going to split apart.
In verse 7, "And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land."
This is particularly fascinating because we don't associate lightning with change. Maybe in causing fires. But here it's mentioned in the scriptures. I'll get into this a little more in a bit.
Additionally, we read that there were cities that burned. Others were sunk. A few were even buried.
One easy to miss city was Moronihah, where verse 10 states, "the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain." This was not a hill, but a mountain. Since there are more than 20 instances in the Book of Mormon that reference a hill, and more than 30 mountain references, there appears to be a clear differentiation between the two. And, this was not a landslide that covered the city.
Verse 11 says there was "great and terrible destruction in the land southward," but in verse 12 it states:
When you consider how much damage a large earthquake can cause in just a few minutes, and then see the immense damage and destruction that is caused by larger earthquakes, you can't help but be amazed.
The longest recorded earthquake we know of was in 2004. The earthquake occurred off the west coast of Sumatra, Indonesia. It lasts between 8.3 to 10 minutes. The 9.1-9.3 quake resulted in tsunamis that killed more than 255,000 along the coastline of the Indian ocean
Try to imagine what this would have been like:
I think we assume there was an earthquake, and a break, another quake, and break. But, what if there was little, or no break, in the "quakings of the earth"? What if the earthquake itself was three hours long?
And, those quakes were previous described as "exceedingly great."
Then there were three days of darkness.
But, it's often overlooked that there wasn't just darkness.
In chapter 10, verses 9 and 10, we read
The worst of the earthquakes, storms, etc. lasted for three hours. But, for the next three days there were still earthquakes.
Can you imagine experiencing three hours of the most intense, strongest earthquake ever known, only to be followed by three days of darkness...and you're still hearing the groaning of the earth and feeling the tremors...but you can't see anything?
Now for a little tangent.
Most of science believes gravitational force is a major player in the universe. But there are some scientists and researchers who believe electromagnetism is a much bigger force and influence in the universe than we recognize or even understand. If your mind to consider things you hadn't thought about before, the electric universe theory has some interesting hypotheses.
I haven't had time to read/listen/watch much about electric universe, but it is very intriguing. One of the best sources is the Thunderbolts Projects https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/ One of the interesting ideas is how strikingly similar the Grand Canyon is to a lightning scar. Many other canyons also have similar features. Additionally, many geologic formations have similar features to fractals created by electrical arcing.
Now this theory is not discarding erosion. The theory is these canyons and formations may have been created a lot faster than traditional science believes. And the theory is not suggesting our normal occurrences of lightning could produce these formations. The electrical events would have been much larger than anything we have ever recorded.
You probably know that geophysicists and Hollywood CGI artists use programs that simulate (create) geographic formations, like rivers, canyons, and mountains. What you may not know is those programs use fractal geometry of electrical diffusion to create those formations.
When the scriptures state "exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land", these mega-lightning events probably did a lot to change the land. And, if the electric universe theory is right, the lightnings may have had a greater effect than the storms and earthquakes.
So, my theory is the Nephite civilization was in North America, and most likely it was predominantly in the eastern half of the United States.
But, I believe while the general geography may have been the same, the land was quite different before the great destruction that occurred at the Savior's death.
It may be that the "prehistoric" great lakes weren't as ancient as we believe. Lakes such as Lake Lahontan (in Nevada), Lake Bonneville (in Utah), and Lake Agassiz (near the Great Lakes region and extending into Canada).
And prior to the Great Lakes, a larger lake called Lake Algonquin covered most of that area.
And, if you go back further into what we are taught as prehistoric history, the Iowa Basin, Illinois Basin, Michigan Basin, and Appalachian Basin were water (supposedly 385 million years ago).
What if the Basins mentioned were filled with water, or even mostly still covered in water so that they might be like inland seas?
The river Sidon in the Book of Mormon would likely have been what we now call the Missippi river, but it would've had a different river bed. Even now the river would be different if we hadn't been damming and diking and controlling its flow over the past 150+ years.
And, then we read at the very beginning of 3 Nephi chapter 11, where a lot of people had gathered at the temple in the land Bountiful. This would have occurred several weeks after the destruction because the Lord's visit happened after his ascension into heaven (3 Nephi 10:18), which ascension happened about 40 days after his resurrection and appearance to his apostles in Jerusalem (Acts 1:9).
So, back to verse 1 of 3 Nephi 11:
I have yet to find any example where the scriptures exaggerate. Usually it seems that things are understated in the scriptures.
I believe the change in the land was so great that there were places that were practically unrecognizable (particularly if a mountain covered a city). And this type of change was all over the land. This is why the people were "marveling and wondering" and "showing one to another" the changes.
The people had likely gathered from the nearby regions. They were probably telling each other about what changes had occurred in their areas. The people were probably amazed at how extensive the changes to the land were, realizing it was not a local or regional event, but had happened all over the country.
So, next time you read the Book of Mormon keep in mind, the face of the land, at least before the Savior's death, was probably very different than what we "know" it to be.
As a side note, it's interesting that we can find more descriptions of the land--such as distances (in time) and directions to cities and lands--before the destruction than we do after the Lord's visit. But we never have a definitive location at any time.
One of the fascinating aspects of the electric universe theory is that many of the events that are traditionally accepted as having taking a long time to occur, may have actually occurred in a much shorter time frame. Some info on electric universe:
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/about/syn/
https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/arch08/080929grandcanyon.htm
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2018/02/12/sputtering-canyons-part-2/
Now, let's go into a bit of "what ifs."
We assume that what we've been taught by various sciences is correct. In particular, we assume it takes hundreds of thousands of years (or millions of years) for geographic changes to occur.
But we also know how devastating a large hurricane can be.
Or the destruction that can occur with a big flood.
Or the changes that can occur with a volcanic eruption.
Or the damage earthquakes can cause.
Any one of those events can change the landscape of the area, and they don't take millennia, years, or even months to cause the change. .
Now go and read 3 Nephi chapter 8, and remember the Nephites had been in the land for over 600 years. Here's some bits from that chapter.
There was "a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land" (verse 5).
Remember, this is storm that nobody had experienced in the 600+ years the Nephites had been in the land.
"And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder" (verse 6).
I've experienced thunder that shakes the house, and maybe even that cause a rumble in the ground. But this thunder was so intense the ground was shaking like it was going to split apart.
In verse 7, "And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land."
This is particularly fascinating because we don't associate lightning with change. Maybe in causing fires. But here it's mentioned in the scriptures. I'll get into this a little more in a bit.
Additionally, we read that there were cities that burned. Others were sunk. A few were even buried.
One easy to miss city was Moronihah, where verse 10 states, "the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain." This was not a hill, but a mountain. Since there are more than 20 instances in the Book of Mormon that reference a hill, and more than 30 mountain references, there appears to be a clear differentiation between the two. And, this was not a landslide that covered the city.
Verse 11 says there was "great and terrible destruction in the land southward," but in verse 12 it states:
"But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth"And in verse 17, after covering some general destruction of cities, we read:
"And thus the face of the whole earth became deformed, because of the tempests, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the quaking of the earth."I've experienced a few minor quakes, and a big earthquake. The big quake lasted for over three minutes. When something lasts that long, it starts to feel longer. Your mind fixates on the event, and it's easy to think more time passed.
When you consider how much damage a large earthquake can cause in just a few minutes, and then see the immense damage and destruction that is caused by larger earthquakes, you can't help but be amazed.
The longest recorded earthquake we know of was in 2004. The earthquake occurred off the west coast of Sumatra, Indonesia. It lasts between 8.3 to 10 minutes. The 9.1-9.3 quake resulted in tsunamis that killed more than 255,000 along the coastline of the Indian ocean
Try to imagine what this would have been like:
"The thunderings, and the lightnings, and the storm, and the tempest, and the quakings of the earth...did last for about the space of three hours; and it was said by some that the time was greater; nevertheless, all these great and terrible things were done in about the space of three hours." (3 Nephi 8:19)Three hours! I'm not sure if I can even imagine the amount of destruction even a series of large earthquakes over three hours could cause.
I think we assume there was an earthquake, and a break, another quake, and break. But, what if there was little, or no break, in the "quakings of the earth"? What if the earthquake itself was three hours long?
And, those quakes were previous described as "exceedingly great."
Then there were three days of darkness.
But, it's often overlooked that there wasn't just darkness.
In chapter 10, verses 9 and 10, we read
"And it came to pass that thus did the three days pass away. And it was in the morning, and the darkness dispersed from off the face of the land, and the earth did cease to tremble, and the rocks did cease to rend, and the dreadful groanings did cease, and all the tumultuous noises did pass away.
"And the earth did cleave together again, that it stood; and the mourning, and the weeping, and the wailing of the people who were spared alive did cease; and their mourning was turned into joy, and their lamentations into the praise and thanksgiving unto the Lord Jesus Christ, their Redeemer."Did you catch that?
The worst of the earthquakes, storms, etc. lasted for three hours. But, for the next three days there were still earthquakes.
Can you imagine experiencing three hours of the most intense, strongest earthquake ever known, only to be followed by three days of darkness...and you're still hearing the groaning of the earth and feeling the tremors...but you can't see anything?
Now for a little tangent.
Most of science believes gravitational force is a major player in the universe. But there are some scientists and researchers who believe electromagnetism is a much bigger force and influence in the universe than we recognize or even understand. If your mind to consider things you hadn't thought about before, the electric universe theory has some interesting hypotheses.
I haven't had time to read/listen/watch much about electric universe, but it is very intriguing. One of the best sources is the Thunderbolts Projects https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/ One of the interesting ideas is how strikingly similar the Grand Canyon is to a lightning scar. Many other canyons also have similar features. Additionally, many geologic formations have similar features to fractals created by electrical arcing.
Now this theory is not discarding erosion. The theory is these canyons and formations may have been created a lot faster than traditional science believes. And the theory is not suggesting our normal occurrences of lightning could produce these formations. The electrical events would have been much larger than anything we have ever recorded.
You probably know that geophysicists and Hollywood CGI artists use programs that simulate (create) geographic formations, like rivers, canyons, and mountains. What you may not know is those programs use fractal geometry of electrical diffusion to create those formations.
When the scriptures state "exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land", these mega-lightning events probably did a lot to change the land. And, if the electric universe theory is right, the lightnings may have had a greater effect than the storms and earthquakes.
So, my theory is the Nephite civilization was in North America, and most likely it was predominantly in the eastern half of the United States.
But, I believe while the general geography may have been the same, the land was quite different before the great destruction that occurred at the Savior's death.
It may be that the "prehistoric" great lakes weren't as ancient as we believe. Lakes such as Lake Lahontan (in Nevada), Lake Bonneville (in Utah), and Lake Agassiz (near the Great Lakes region and extending into Canada).
And prior to the Great Lakes, a larger lake called Lake Algonquin covered most of that area.
(image from http://maxworldhistory.weebly.com/map-exercise.html)
And, if you go back further into what we are taught as prehistoric history, the Iowa Basin, Illinois Basin, Michigan Basin, and Appalachian Basin were water (supposedly 385 million years ago).
(image from https://www.therapidian.org/prehistoric-michigan-covered-ancient-seas-tropical-jungles)
What if the Basins mentioned were filled with water, or even mostly still covered in water so that they might be like inland seas?
The river Sidon in the Book of Mormon would likely have been what we now call the Missippi river, but it would've had a different river bed. Even now the river would be different if we hadn't been damming and diking and controlling its flow over the past 150+ years.
And, then we read at the very beginning of 3 Nephi chapter 11, where a lot of people had gathered at the temple in the land Bountiful. This would have occurred several weeks after the destruction because the Lord's visit happened after his ascension into heaven (3 Nephi 10:18), which ascension happened about 40 days after his resurrection and appearance to his apostles in Jerusalem (Acts 1:9).
So, back to verse 1 of 3 Nephi 11:
"And now it came to pass that there were a great multitude gathered together, of the people of Nephi, round about the temple which was in the land Bountiful; and they were marveling and wondering one with another, and were showing one to another the great and marvelous change which had taken place."The "great and marvelous change" was because of all the destruction that occurred. I am certain they were not pointing out some cracks in the earth, fallen buildings, and some landslides that may have happened.
I have yet to find any example where the scriptures exaggerate. Usually it seems that things are understated in the scriptures.
I believe the change in the land was so great that there were places that were practically unrecognizable (particularly if a mountain covered a city). And this type of change was all over the land. This is why the people were "marveling and wondering" and "showing one to another" the changes.
The people had likely gathered from the nearby regions. They were probably telling each other about what changes had occurred in their areas. The people were probably amazed at how extensive the changes to the land were, realizing it was not a local or regional event, but had happened all over the country.
So, next time you read the Book of Mormon keep in mind, the face of the land, at least before the Savior's death, was probably very different than what we "know" it to be.
As a side note, it's interesting that we can find more descriptions of the land--such as distances (in time) and directions to cities and lands--before the destruction than we do after the Lord's visit. But we never have a definitive location at any time.
One of the fascinating aspects of the electric universe theory is that many of the events that are traditionally accepted as having taking a long time to occur, may have actually occurred in a much shorter time frame. Some info on electric universe:
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/about/syn/
https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/arch08/080929grandcanyon.htm
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2018/02/12/sputtering-canyons-part-2/
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